Curse

MasterDinadan · May 17, 2005, 02:35 AM // 02:35

I just grabbed this skill from a boss in Elona Reach and I must say... I am very impressed! This skill is extremely useful, but I fear it's a little TOO useful.
I use Illusion of Weakness and Air Attunement. Illusion of Weakness is an enchantment with no time-limit... it simply lasts until my health drops too low. I always make sure to recast Air Attunement when it wears off.
Ether Renewal itself is also considerred an enchantment, and with 10 poitns in energy storage, Ether Renewal gives 4 energy and 15 health PER ENCHANTMENT.
Since I use three enchantments, Ether Renewal is basically giving me 11 seconds during which I gain +12 energy and +45 health for EVERY spell I cast. I just use this and unload all my spells without worrying about the losses at all because I gain more energy then I spend... and heal myself completely in the process. I can do it every 30 seconds too... This skill just seems way too powerful as I have not had to worry about running out of energy AT ALL since I got it, I can cast it often enough to completely replenish myself by throwing spells and regenning 12 energy for each one.
What do you think? Does this skill need a nerf?

spiritofcat · May 17, 2005, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Is it an Elite? If not, maybe it doesn't need nerfing, just eliting.

MasterDinadan · May 17, 2005, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Yes, it is elite... but I still feel it is very powerful as it pretty much takes away your need to consider conserving energy at all. You can stand there and cast all you want and Ether Renewal will recharge often enough for you to completely refill your energy bar when you need it.
Imagine playing an E/Mo who can just heal everyone constantly and never run out of energy because he has 10 energy storage (giving him a very large max energy) and gets that outstanding enchantment every 30 seconds.
The thing is that this skill can only be effectively used by Elementalist primaries, which means that an elementalist primary with any other secondary class can probably do better than if that secondary were primary... because they pretty much have access to the same skills, but don't have to worry about the energy requirements at all.
Then gain, maybe there are other primary attribute elites that are good... but I've looked at the Mesmer's, and it's not.
In my opinion, the mesmer's primary attribute is not even that useful, and the ONE skill that is linked to his primary attribute is not that useful either (sure it's nice, but to take up your elite on something like mantra of recovery when there are so many better options...). With this in mind, I really can't imagine why anyone would want to be a primary mesmer. . . secondary, sure... mesmer has lots of fine skills, but the only difference between a primary mesmer and a secondary mesmer is an attribute that I don't find to be that useful and a single ability I probably would never use at all...

Ether Renewal is my first elite skill however, so maybe I'm just not used to HOW elite these skills are supposed to be. On a slightly humorous note, our party whiped in the same battle that I captured the skill... and when I started talking about how I just captured an awesome skill they all got angry and said "I can't believe you just lost the mission for us to capture a skill!". That was not the case at all... by the time I even used my capture signet, only two of the members were left and we were doomed anyway... why not get something out of it, eh? I'm definatly glad I did... I love this skill

May 17, 2005, 03:39 AM // 03:39

This is why balancing skills by sticking them with elite tags is incredibly stupid. Ether Renewal,Elemental Attunement and Energy Drain are incredible killer energy management options. Instead of elite skills making gameplay varied you get a bunch of no brainer options which anyone worth their salt would take and degenerate gameplay.

Mantra of Recovery is one of the most counter-productive skills in the game(from an interrupt Mesmer p.o.v.). You have to raise your Fast Casting very high just to get some decent usage since you want that up as long as possible.

The spells you really want to recharge fast are the interrupts and some of their hexes. Problem? Interrupts are .25 sec hitting spells. So raising your FC levels has very little effect on them.

mee · May 17, 2005, 05:52 AM // 05:52

I agree, if everything is working properly, Ether Renewal makes things go even more smoothly.

I would note also that while plenty of classes may not *need* their primary attribute, I see Energy Storage as more of a necessity than an optional boon. I routinely drop 90+ energy on a late game battle w/ only a few mobs. W/o Energy Storage I would have bottomed out twice mid-fight (not a good place to be at all).

There are several constraints on Ether Renewal, and an Ether Renewal oriented build. The skill is usuable once every 30 sec, and lasts a flat 10 sec. If you're a fire Ele, you won't be able to unload all of your spells b/c chances are you've got some long casting times on a couple of em. That's only an aside really, b/c the main point is simply that Ether Renewal is in fact constrained b/c it's an enchantment. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have that extra energy awarded b/c ER is itself an enchantment but it leaves any build that relies on ER wide open to Strip Enchantment, Desecrate Enchantment, and Shatter Enchantment. Now you're minus an enchantment (probably ER as it was the last you've cast), minus the 10 Energy, and probably already low on Energy as it is.

Note also that any knockdowns also constrain the utility of ER: not only does ER have a minute casting time, and thus make it interruptable, but also, since it lasts only 10 secs, you are greatly crippled when you are kept from your one window of "prime activity" b/c you've spent half of it on the ground.

That's not to say that ER isn't awesome or that it couldn't be used to make a "trick" build, or that it couldn't even be the backbone of a really great "non-trick" build, but it also doens't deserve nerfing.

May 17, 2005, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Good points but Single Target enchantments still wont touch it. Instead of gaining 16 energy per cast it only goes to 12 which is still pretty respectable.

The 30 second recharge actually keeps ER from becoming completely stupid but there are ways around that. ER builds arent really meant for most Ele nuker builds but will work under an AoR/Attunement/ER/bond(external) build which means 5 slots dedicated to nukes.

You could do even better with an E/R on Serpents quickness and drop that to 4 attack skills recharging 33% faster. You "could" end up with something crazy like this:

Energy Storage 10 +1 minor
Air Magic 16(12 +1 hat +3 superior)
Wilderness Survival 8

Aura of Restoration
Air Attunement
Ether Renewal
Life Bond/Essence Bond<---from outside monks

Serpents Quickness
Lightning Orb
Chain Lightning
Lightning Strike
Lightning Javelin

Blinding Flash or Gale if you're going for a utility build.

BChan · May 17, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

you do realize that SQ only works for every SKILLS you cast not Spells. Therefore you would need to be a Mez, but wait you would have to be a mez primary to get that, and therefore couldn't have that elite...i would say its balanced. The only thing that is spammable is something with no recharge (ie flare, or ice spear) and they eat up 5 energy each. So to your point of 11 net energy is pretty respectable, but i think overall its balanced by the inability to aoe (for the most part as they are long casts), do lesser single damage or do more single target damage at the sacrifice of recharges, the recharge on ER, and the subsceptability to remove enchant spells.

IMHO most elites are balanced purely on the fact they are "build skills". Most people design builds around elites because they are sooo beneficial that you have to tailor your character to fit a niche that works with your elite. Elites just drive home the focus of your character in my mind.

Pharalon · May 17, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by BChan

you do realize that SQ only works for every SKILLS you cast not Spells.

You do realise the Spells is just a sub-category of Skills? SQ works on anything in the game, barring Res sig and the SoC.

Mercury Angel · May 18, 2005, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Mass enchantment removal, slow casting effects, or knockdown, and you're pretty much out of luck.

Mass enchantment removal simply takes it off, x2 casting times makes it about half as effective, and knockdown will clip off precious time where you can't cast at all. Rather than depending entirely on Diversion to knock out specific skills, I like to start off my battles using Arcane Theivery to take a skill away from a person for 30+ seconds when I play mesmer, and that'll lock it out for a while as well.

With Ether Renewal, you're very likely going to plan your build around having a supply of inexhaustable energy, but once someone takes out Ether Renewal, you're pretty much out of luck, as the infinite energy is no more.

The balance to relying on a single skill as the sole foundation of your build is self-creating: once that skill is gone, the whole thing falls apart.

Can't spam divine boon to fully heal and restore energy without it, can't cast expensive quick recharge skills that'll refund more energy than they cost without, etc. etc.

That's my opinion anyway >.>

That being said, might want to try e/me and bring arcane echo so you can use it twice :P

Cs Coldize · May 18, 2005, 03:53 AM // 03:53

I completely agree with you. The first time I saw this skill I was completely amazed. I have yet to get it though but I am eagerly awaiting this.

Cs Coldize · May 18, 2005, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by BChan

you do realize that SQ only works for every SKILLS you cast not Spells. Therefore you would need to be a Mez, but wait you would have to be a mez primary to get that, and therefore couldn't have that elite...i would say its balanced. The only thing that is spammable is something with no recharge (ie flare, or ice spear) and they eat up 5 energy each. So to your point of 11 net energy is pretty respectable, but i think overall its balanced by the inability to aoe (for the most part as they are long casts), do lesser single damage or do more single target damage at the sacrifice of recharges, the recharge on ER, and the subsceptability to remove enchant spells.

IMHO most elites are balanced purely on the fact they are "build skills". Most people design builds around elites because they are sooo beneficial that you have to tailor your character to fit a niche that works with your elite. Elites just drive home the focus of your character in my mind.

"For 10 seconds, each time you cast a spell, you gain 1-4 energy and 5-17 health for each enchantment on you"

Mercury Angel · May 18, 2005, 09:23 AM // 09:23

SQ = Serpent's Quickness

You're on a different track from the thing you quoted >.>

MasterDinadan · May 19, 2005, 02:58 AM // 02:58

I've always played my elementalist without worrying too much about energy costs. I pretty much use my energy to deal damage, and for the most part my spells are all reasonable efficient at using that energy. So I just unload all my damage spells on the enemy ANYWAY. Adding Ether Renewal into the mix isn't encouranging me to depend on the use of more energy, because my strategy ALREADY involves using up all my energy.

And it's not like I fall to pieces if Ether Renewal is prevented. It happens sometimes, so I just make do with the energy I have left until it recharges and I give it another go. It's really not so bad... even if Ether Renewal is occasionally prevented I rarely find myself in an energy crisis... if nobody attempts to do ANYTHING about my ERs... I find myself with more energy then I need, because I'll be back up to maximum energy before I even finish using up the whole duration of the skill.

I'm an air elementalist and not a single skill on my bar is instant recharge, however I don't really need an instant recharge skill to make good use of ER, because I just alternate between all of my spells while the others are recharging. For the most part, air spells seem to cast pretty quickly, so I cast plenty of spells during ERs duration to regenerate a lot.

I'm not saying ER is a sure way to victory or anything, I'm just saying that when you compare it to skills like Mantra of Recovery... I just can't imagine why ANYONE would pick the mantra, in any circumstance.

Vermilion Okeanos · May 19, 2005, 09:04 AM // 09:04

when u do ether renewal right... u can end up in getting energy for every spell u cast instead of using up energy... thats right... with 3 enchant, and keep spamming flare/stone dagger/ice spear u can completely refill that 70-90 energy of urs... at this point, u can take those +15 energy - 1 regen item without regard.... boosting ur total energy probably/usually beyound 100.

too good? not under an energy denial mesemer =/ u still spend some time recharging (WHILE DOING DAMAGE)... but yes, defintely one of the best spell for a fire E to use as fire only have mind burn as elite, u wont be missing much.

u can also go as e/mo and put on divine boon and other enchantment on urself and spam orison and dwaya like there is no tommorow. (until u get diversion or backfire or soemthing)

MasterDinadan · May 20, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

I wouldn't use a +15 energy item -1 regen item in most circumstances. The +15 energy is only handy when are you are actually running low... so when using ether renewal... just spam spells until you run out completely, switch to a +15 energy item so you have enough to cast ether renewal and then start casting to refill your energy again. Once you get the energy replenished, switch off the -1 regen item so that your energy drops more slowly.